- Meera Reed a écrit:
Any Phase: Bring Meera Reed out of Shadows and into play by paying the rest of her gold cost. Then choose 1 non-plot card (2 instead if it is Winter) and treat its printed text box as if it were blank until end of the phase.
- The Red Viper a écrit:
Challenges: Discard 1 gold from The Red Viper to stand him. Then, you may discard 1 additional gold from him to raise the claim on any player's revealed plot card by 1 until the end of the next challenge.
Suite au spoil de [url="https://letronedeferjce.forumactif.com/t13063-cycle-warden-the-valemen-spoil-4eme-chapitre-non-dispo"]Lysa Arryn[/url], j'ai dit que son effet ne permettait d'annuler ni l'effet de Meera ni l'effet de la Vipère "pièce".
Khudzlin a affirmé le contraire.
Je vais tenter ici de justifier mon point de vue, vous me direz ensuite ce que vous en pensez.
Il y a 2 points qui me font aller dans ce sens.
Premier point : Dans la FAQ, il y a 2 questions relatives à un effet "then", au sujet de Game of Cyvasses.
- Game of Cyvasse a écrit:
Challenges: Each player must choose and kneel a character with an INT icon he or she controls, if able. Then, the player who knelt the character with the highest STR may choose and return a character to its owner's hand.
- FAQ 5.2 p.27 a écrit:
If my opponent plays Game of Cyvasse and
I do not cancel its effect can I discard a
duplicate to prevent my Ser Arthur Dayne from
being returned to my hand?
Yes. The "Then" effect on Game of Cyvasse
opens a window for you to save Ser Arthur
Dayne.
Could I use Starfall Advisor to cancel Game of
Cyvasse's effect that would discard Ser Arthur
Dayne?
No. A cancel must cancel an entire effect not
just part of an effect. Since Starfall Advisor
would not be able to trigger its ability when the
event card is first played, the ability is not able
to be triggered at all.
C'est la réponse à la seconde question qui me fait dire que Lysa ne peut annuler ni Meera ni la Vipère pièce.
En effet, l'effet de Lysa ne permet pas d'annuler la sortie d'ombre de Meera, ni le redressement de la Vipère pièce.
Deuxième point : C'est le timing (mais peut-être que je me plante complètement sur ce point, donc corrigez moi si c'est le cas).
Si je reprends l'effet de la Vipère:
Etape 1 : Initiation de l'effet
==> Une pièce est défaussée de la Vipère pour payer le coût.
Etape 2 : Sauvegarde / annulation.
Etape 3 : Résolution de l'effet
==> La Vipère se redresse.
==> Initiation et résolution de l'effet "Then" : une autre pièce est défaussée pour payer le coût de l'effet "Then", et le claim est augmenté de 1.
Une fois à l'étape 3, il n'y a plus d'opportunité d'annulation pour l'effet initié à l'étape 1, ni pour ceux initiés à l'étape 3.
Notez qu'il y a une exception pour les effets de sauvegarde, qui sont encore possibles si un effet "Then" ferait quitter le jeu à une carte, comme spécifié dans la FAQ, section 3.40:
- FAQ 5.2 a écrit:
(3.40) Saving from "Then" Effects
Any "Then" effect that would remove a character from play creates a special opportunity for players to play “save” responses to the terminal “Then” effect. Only save responses can be played during this special opportunity.
Je cite ce dernier passage de la FAQ pour information, mais il ne comporte pas d'éléments qui nous aide à trancher la question de l'annulation d'un effet "Then".
- FAQ 5.2 a écrit:
(4.9) The word "then"
If a card has multiple effects, all effects on the card are resolved, if possible, independently of whether any other effects of the card are successful, with the following important exception:
If a card uses the word "then," then the preceding effect must have been resolved successfully for the subsequent dependent effect to be resolved.
Take for example the card You've Killed the Wrong Dwarf (CORE L167):
"Any phase: Choose and kneel a non-NOBLE character, Then, that character claims 1 power."
In this example, because of the use of the word "then," claiming power on the character
is dependent upon that character first kneeling. In other words, the card cannot be played on an already-kneeling character to claim power for that character.
By contrast, the card Cersei Lannister (CORE L39) does not use the word "then," and its effects are not dependent on one another:
"Dominance: Kneel Cersei Lannister and pay 2 gold to choose a character. Kneel that character if it is standing. That character does not stand during the standing phase this round."
In this case, the two effects (kneeling the character and preventing it from standing) are considered separately: The chosen character will be prevented from standing if it was knelt by Cersei's effect, or if it was knelt previously in the round.
