LA CONQUETE (aka les 12 salopards)

Tiraillé je suis, j'aimerais être qt qui n'a pas ressenti tel état d'âme depuis la fin des années 80...

Ouai enfin regardez les decks que le Tyrell summer a affronté...

Et la liste. Le type a juste 0 gestion d'attachement donc poppy c'est finit. Il gère pas varys non plus. Ni la nouvelle Arya.

Bref, un méta sain quoi.
Regardez les perfs que Qt a fait avec le même genre de deck. A Paris ou Nancy, je ne pense pas que ça gagne un deck comme ça.

Après une drawcap de 6 ça te fait 8 cartes dans le tour, c'est quand même décent sur un deck de 60...

Le mec s'est pris des poppy sur Mace et il gagne juste un tour plus tard avec Randyll/Renly hein

Après si tu joues un deck qui fait rien de rien, c'est pas ma faute hein.

Mais ce deck je le croise actuellement sur internet, et franchement, c'est pas une difficulté. Et je joue en Barath, pas en tyrell, donc l'excuse de la faction pétée ça marche pas, je te préviens.

@Shun: the watch has need, ça contourne le draw cap... tout comme le deck de Vince

Dorne oui, pas secret scheme.

Mais Martell/Dorne Highsparrow y a moyen de mettre l'au au fond de sa vie niveau cartes en main. Faudrait changer quelques aspects, mais le reste reste atroce. ET même publié ça sera pas assez pris en compte.

Je sais pas si ton deck te démange pour le CE Vince, mais il a des vrais arguments. Et Martell a une des meilleures armes contre le nouvel event NW.

Qt, The Soulless Man a écrit:

@Shun: the watch has need, ça contourne le draw cap... tout comme le deck de Vince

My bad, effectivement, c'est pas de la draw. C'est plus envisageable du coup

Je garde mon deck sous le coude si je trouve pas de meilleures idées, mais je continue de penser qu'il aura pas mal de difficultés contre le Tyrell de manière générale, et ajouter SAT sera plus difficile que juste sortir 3 cartes et changer trois plots.

C'est un vria choix entren un truc stable et un truc plus verssatile mais demandand un peu plus de skill (sniper le Counting Coppers adverse avec les bons plots c'est cool, mais les tours où tu te plantes peuvent poser soucis).

Hello les boys, je me suis permis de partir du texte de Timmy (merci à toi pour cette participation, c'est cool ), j'y ai juste modifié un tout petit peu la forme, je pense que ce sera plus efficace si on montre effectivement notre inquiétude plûtot que notre exaspération, corrige moi si je me trompe j'ai senti une pointe de sarcasme a différent moment, je propose une version "sans pic" à vous de voir ce que vous préféré ^^.
J'y rajoute aussi un petit paragraphe sur les "core rules" qui pourraient éviter de faire des listes de restreintes aussi grande :
- Le Drawcap
- Limit 3 times per round for every triggered effect of the game.

Enfin un petit paragraphe sur le bien fondé d'une restrict list par bloc.

Citation :

Dear FFG

As players and fans of Agot LCG 2.0, let us told you how worried we are about the current evolution of the metagame.

First of all, we would like to thank you for publishing the first joust restricted list. This was highly welcome and a sign that the designing team is worried about having an healthy environnement for the game.

Althought, we'd like to acknolege that this list is not doing enough, specially about so called "combo" or "OTK" decks.
As you know, the playstyle of those decks is pretty straightforward, they will try to draw almost their entire deck on 1/2 turns, then gains a huge amount of money out of one turn, and bring from there a combination of cards to make 15+ power in one turn.
Meanwhile, the interraction beetween players is reduce to it's core minimum, ledding to a very negative playing experience for the player sitting in front of the "combo" player, some players even comparing this game style as "solitaire's game".

Two of these so called "combo decks" managed to survive the restricted list :
- the Tyrell Lion lady combo (https://thronesdb.com/decklist/view/11183/six-maids-in-a-pool-with-fenderico-1st-tigella-day-2018-1.0)
- The Greyjoy Rose drowned god combo  (https://thronesdb.com/decklist/view/11259/greyjoy-combo-1.0)

The restricted list that was published few weeks ago was, in our opinion, unsufficient in that regards, that neither it prevented combo to be a thing, nor it anticipated the coming chapter packs (EG Driftwood Cudgel (Someone Always Tells #112) for instance).

From there, we think that the restrict list sadly failled on his main purpose, and moreever, removed some tools to more "classic" decks.
After discussions, we came along with different ideas to deal with those problems we'd like to suggest you :

1)
As said above, combo decks almost all work around the same mechanics that is to say, using several cards to fully draw your entire deck and generate a lot of gold / draw / and eventually 15 power.

Without this [gold + draw] engine, it does not seem possible for any combo decks to properly work.

Although the restricted list looked accurate at first glance, we believe that it didn't solve the problem entirely.

Thus, we suggest an action on the following cards :

-The Dragon's Tail (Across the Seven Kingdoms #1)
-The Dornishman's wife (Guarding the Realm #39)
-The Bear and the Maiden Fair (Core Set #197)
-Six maids in a Pool (House of Thorns #23)
-Given to the Drowned God (The Faith Militant #92)
-To the Rose Banner! (Wolves of the North #38)
-A Rose of Gold (Lions of Casterly Rock #38)
-Pleasure Barge (Taking the Black #6)
-Secret Schemes (The Red Wedding #76)
-In Doran's Name (The Road to Winterfell #36)
-Elinor Tyrell (The Fall of Astapor #43)
-The Bounty of Highgarden (Kingsmoot #44)


To a lower Extent, we also believe something should be done with Littlefingers Meddling (Lions of Casterly Rock #49).

We suggest to update the restricted list with these cards, or, if not, to add erratas about these cards in order to limit their interactions. Such an errata could be, for example to add the keyword limited to some or all of these cards. The errata could also take the form of a generic cost, such as for instance, kneeling the faction card to trigger any of these effects.

2)
We also woul'd like to draw your atttention on some power points engine that seems dangerous if you want to avoid combos to exist, and other kind of "solitaire's" deck :

-Mace Tyrell (House of Thorns #1)
-Driftwood Cudgel (Someone Always Tells #112)
-Doran's Game (Core Set #119)
-All Men are Fools (All Men Are Fools #4)

For the last two cards from this list, every card with "gains x power" is a "call for abuse" card. Some interractions with Doran's Game and Ricasso can already provide more than 15 powers by turn two.

For the rest of the afordmention list, we've come along with a solution frequently asked since CCG era :

A new Core rule that would put a limit of 3 times per round or phase for every triggered effects of the games.
While avoiding a big part of the combos, this would also balance some cards in the game while making design and playtest even easier to avoid unexpected/underwhelmed interractions.
We also would like you to consider the fact that in 1.0, almost every time an infinite loop happened to offer a combo deck (mostly self standing effects) was errated pretty quickly with a limit of 3 times, either per phase or per round added on the card.
This could have been prevented if there was a core rule that already stand to avoid that, thus helping new players to not feel spoiled when discovering erratas.
We strongly suggest to make it per round as it creates a safer environment.

3)
Another core rule that would prevent most of those combo to appears, would be a drawcap.
While the reserve brings some interesting interractions to the game and is a first way to avoid excessiv draw, it seems not enough to prevent combos, even more knowing most of those are also based on recursion engine such as The Annals of Castleblack (Guarding the Realm #40).
From there, we think that a drawcap limit of 6 would be an interesting compromise beetween 1.0 drawcap and 2.0 reserve.
This would also add some interest to some cards that doesn't actually "draw" but rather "add to hand", such as Dorne (Sands of Dorne #17) or The Watch has Need (Taking the Black #2), while also opponening some building and design possibilities from that perspectiv.

We are aware that there is probably no good solution on wether cards should be restricted or errated, especially if we take into consideration the fact that some of these cards (but not all of them) will one day leave the metagame with the rotation. But still, these cards are, in our opinion, the core of those "combo" deck you aim to fight with your restricted list and as such, must be dealt with.

Note that we adresse you this concerns two weeks before the European championship, the first continental Tier event of the year.
We hope that something could be done to have an healthier metagame, balancing the core mechanic of the game from the ressource perspectiv (restrein draw and economy for every players).

Thank you very much to accord some time to this lecture, we hope you'll be able to answer those worries we adress you.
We also would like to aknoledge all the work an effort you put into this game, we really would like it to grow as much as possible and are writing this open letter for this specific purpose, while also willing to enjoy the only game that matters, as we used to do so for many years for a lot of us.

Best regards.

Hop, voilà, j'y suis pas allé avec le dos de la cuillère, dîtes moi ce que vous en pensez (on essaie de pas trop s'attacher à ses amours in house tout ça tout ça, si y'a des choses qui ont été oubliés, dîtes moi !).

Pareil sur la forme du truc, le ton employé, les sujets abordés, si quelque chose vous semble mieux, please, ou bien si ce qui est écrit vous fait tiquer/vous semble clocher, please speak up (pareils pour tout ce qui est coquille etc) !

Ps : j'ai oublié de mention Nightmares, qui pourrait effectivement aider "un peu", mais qui peut aussi être un outil pour contrer les decks combos (un peu comme Hand's Judgment quoi), c'est difficile, je sais pas trop si il faut ou non les insérer dedans, si ils font déjà le taff qu'on leur suggère, c'est ptet suffisant.

bonne initiative en tout cas , la kubla con tombe avant le ce avec une "fan faq" , ça les fera peut être cogiter aussi.

On croise les doigts !

Perso ça me semble une très bonne base de réflexion pour FFG (ce que l'on veut que ça soit)... Je pense qu'il ne faut pas tarder à balancer le truc, le CE est dans deux semaines, je ne sais pas si c'est envisageable qu'un truc soit fait d'ici là (même si je pense que ça serait très sain et donc très bénéfique pour le CE et pour le jeu en général). Si ce message est relayé par des joueurs internationaux ça peut aller très vite... donc pour moi, il faut balancer samedi au plus tard (en disant que c'est une tribune collective des 15 membres de la délégation française du CE) pour faire un buzz rapide dans le weekend (ça peut à mon avis monter très vite vu la lassitude que les decks combo ont dû créer ces derniers temps).

On peut, dès la publication envoyer le lien du truc à Phil qui à mon avis fera en sorte que le relais se fasse rapidement outre-atlantique (Rappelons nous que le premier drama a eu lieu au Canada)...

Et oui, si ce qui est préconisé est fait, HJ et Nightmare n'ont plus à figurer dans la RL.

ça parait pas mal du tout

Citation :

to port your atttention

juste un doute le coté anglais de cette formulation

Je rajouterai un mini paragrpahe à la fin sur le fait qu'on kiffe le jeu, notamment la phase de complot, la phase de défi et tout ce qui traduitsi bien in game les affrontements des romans.

Sinon je pense aussi que ça doit partir samedi au plus tard. Par contre le plus effectif c'est que chaque personne ok copie-colle le post non ?

Dire que ça vient de 15 joueurs du CE c'est trop restrictif (et erroné). Perso je suis à fond pour la démarche et j'y va pas :p

C'est corriger, la bonne formule c'est draw your attention, my bad ^^.

Si ça va a tout le monde on peut même le balancer dès ce soir hein.

Vince, en tant que professionnel , t'en penses quoi ?
Joke aside, même si j'y crois assez peu également ça te parait bien comme texte ? Ce sera bien pris par la communauté également tu penses ? Et d'un point de vue plus formel ?

Perso je trouve ça très bien et d'ailleurs je trouve vraiment bien d'avoir ajouté les références des cartes, ça ajoute du crédit aux propos. Effectivement il faut rappeler le contexte du CE.

Si FFG prend le temps de réfléchir à seulement 25% de ce qui est mentionné, ce sera déjà une grande avancée.

Et pour nightmares je partage les réserves de Laplante, car Nightmares est à peu près le seul truc qui peut contrer. Après, j'avoue que ça me gonfle toujours autant de builder un truc avec des persos / lieux sous employé (eddard core set :coeur:) et me faire ruiner par la première gestion neutre standard de type nightmares. Mais bon ça, ça me regarde et c'est pas le sujet.

Pour la diffusion du truc :
feedback spammé via le site FFG ?
post sur cardgamedb ?

"The French manifesto for an healthy metagame"

Quelques menues corrections de forme (celles que je vois)

Citation :

Dear FFG

As players and fans of Agot LCG 2.0, let us told you how worried we are about the current evolution of the metagame.

First of all, we would like to thank you for publishing the first joust restricted list. This was highly welcome and a sign that the designing team is worried about having an healthy environnement for the game.

Althought, we'd like to acknolege acknowledge that this list is not doing enough, specially about so called "combo" or "OTK" decks.
As you know, the playstyle of those decks is pretty straightforward, they will try to draw almost their entire deck on 1/2 turns, then gains a huge amount of money out of one turn, and bring from there a combination of cards to make 15+ power in one turn.
Meanwhile, the interraction beetween between players is reduced to it's core minimum, ledding to a very negative playing experience for the player sitting in front of the "combo" player, some players even comparing this game style as "solitaire's game".

Two of these so called "combo decks" managed to survive the restricted list :
- the Tyrell Lion lady combo (https://thronesdb.com/decklist/view/11183/six-maids-in-a-pool-with-fenderico-1st-tigella-day-2018-1.0)
- The Greyjoy Rose drowned god combo  (https://thronesdb.com/decklist/view/11259/greyjoy-combo-1.0)

The restricted list that was published few weeks ago was, in our opinion, unsufficient in that regards, that neither it prevented combo to be a thing, nor it anticipated the coming chapter packs (EG Driftwood Cudgel (Someone Always Tells #112) for instance).

From there, we think that the restrict list sadly failled on his main purpose, and moreeover, removed some tools to more "classic" decks.
After discussions, we came along with different ideas to deal with those problems we'd like to suggest you :

1)
As said above, combo decks almost all work around the same mechanics that is to say, using several cards to fully draw your entire deck and generate a lot of gold / draw / and eventually 15 power.

Without this [gold + draw] engine, it does not seem possible for any combo decks to properly work.

Although the restricted list looked accurate at first glance, we believe that it didn't solve the problem entirely.

Thus, we suggest an action on the following cards :

-The Dragon's Tail (Across the Seven Kingdoms #1)
-The Dornishman's wife (Guarding the Realm #39)
-The Bear and the Maiden Fair (Core Set #197)
-Six maids in a Pool (House of Thorns #23)
-Given to the Drowned God (The Faith Militant #92)
-To the Rose Banner! (Wolves of the North #38)
-A Rose of Gold (Lions of Casterly Rock #38)
-Pleasure Barge (Taking the Black #6)
-Secret Schemes (The Red Wedding #76)
-In Doran's Name (The Road to Winterfell #36)
-Elinor Tyrell (The Fall of Astapor #43)
-The Bounty of Highgarden (Kingsmoot #44)


To a lower Extent, we also believe something should be done with Littlefingers Meddling (Lions of Casterly Rock #49).

We suggest to update the restricted list with these cards, or, if not, to add erratas about these cards in order to limit their interactions. Such an errata could be, for example to add the keyword limited to some or all of these cards. The errata could also take the form of a generic cost, such as for instance, kneeling the faction card to trigger any of these effects.

2)
We also woul'd like to draw your atttention on some power points engine that seems dangerous if you want to avoid combos to exist, and other kind of "solitaire's" deck :

-Mace Tyrell (House of Thorns #1)
-Driftwood Cudgel (Someone Always Tells #112)
-Doran's Game (Core Set #119)
-All Men are Fools (All Men Are Fools #4)

For the last two cards from this list, every card with "gains x power" is a "call for abuse" card. Some interractions with Doran's Game and Ricasso can already provide more than 15 powers by turn two.

For the rest of the aforedmentioned list, we've come along with a solution frequently asked since CCG era :

A new Core rule that would put a limit of 3 times per round or phase for every triggered effects of the games.
While avoiding a big part of the combos, this would also balance some cards in the game while making design and playtest even easier to avoid unexpected/underwhelmed interractions.
We also would like you to consider the fact that in 1.0, almost every time an infinite loop happened to offer a combo deck (mostly self standing effects) was errated pretty quickly with a limit of 3 times, either per phase or per round added on the card.
This could have been prevented if there was a core rule that already stand to avoid that, thus helping new players to not feel spoiled when discovering erratas.
We strongly suggest to make it per round as it creates a safer environment.

3)
Another core rule that would prevent most of those combo to appears, would be a drawcap.
While the reserve brings some interesting interractions to the game and is a first way to avoid excessiv draw, it seems not enough to prevent combos, even more knowing most of those are also based on recursion engine such as The Annals of Castleblack (Guarding the Realm #40).
From there, we think that a drawcap limit of 6 would be an interesting compromise beetween 1.0 drawcap and 2.0 reserve.
This would also add some interest to some cards that doesn't actually "draw" but rather "add to hand", such as Dorne (Sands of Dorne #17) or The Watch has Need (Taking the Black #2), while also opponening opening some building and design possibilities from that perspective.

We are aware that there is probably no good solution on wether cards should be restricted or errated, especially if we take into consideration the fact that some of these cards (but not all of them) will one day leave the metagame with the rotation. But still, these cards are, in our opinion, the core of those "combo" deck you aim to fight with your restricted list and as such, must be dealt with.

Note that we adresse you this concerns two weeks before the European championship, the first continental Tier event of the year.
We hope that something could be done to have an healthier metagame, balancing the core mechanic of the game from the ressource perspective (restreain draw and economy for every players).

Thank you very much to accord some time to this lecture, we hope you'll be able to answer those worries we adress you.
We also would like to acknowledge all the work and effort you put into this game, we really would like it to grow as much as possible and are writing this open letter for this specific purpose, while also willing to enjoy the only game that matters, as we used to do so for many years for a lot of us.

Best regards.

Laplante a écrit:

Joke aside, même si j'y crois assez peu également ça te parait bien comme texte ?

Historiquement, ce genre de protestation est encore celui qui marche le mieux (en-dehors de celles, orales, des ricains qui couchent avec les devs...) . Donc ne soit pas si pessimiste.

Je me permets une petite relecture:

Citation :

Dear FFG,

As players and fans of Agot LCG 2.0, let us tell you how worried we are about the current state of the metagame.

First of all, we would like to thank you for publishing the first joust restricted list. This was highly welcomed and a sign that the design team is working to bring a healthy environnement for the game.

That being said, we'd like to acknowlege that this list is not doing enough, especially about the so called "combo" or "OTK" decks.
As you know, the playstyle of those decks is pretty straightforward: they will try to draw almost their entire deck on turn 1 or 2, then gain a huge amount of money within one phase, and then bring a combination of cards to make 15+ power in one turn.
Meanwhile, the interraction between players is reduced to its core minimum, leading to a very negative play experience for the player sitting in front of the "combo" player, some even comparing this game style as "solitaire's game".

Two of these so called "combo decks" managed to survive the restricted list :
- the Tyrell Lion lady combo (https://thronesdb.com/decklist/view/11183/six-maids-in-a-pool-with-fenderico-1st-tigella-day-2018-1.0)
- The Greyjoy Rose drowned god combo (https://thronesdb.com/decklist/view/11259/greyjoy-combo-1.0)

The restricted list that was published a few weeks ago was, in our opinion, unsufficient in that regards. It neither prevented combo to be a thing, nor did it anticipate the coming chapter packs (EG Driftwood Cudgel (Someone Always Tells #112) for instance).

From there, we think that the restricted list sadly failled on its main purpose, and moreover, removed some tools of the more "classic" decks.
After discussions, we came along with different ideas to deal with those problems we'd like to suggest to you :

1)
As said above, combo decks almost all work around the same mechanics. That is to say, using several cards to fully draw your entire deck and generate a lot of gold / draw / and eventually 15 powers.

Without this [gold + draw] engine, it does not seem possible for any combo decks to properly work.

Although the restricted list looked accurate at first glance, we believe that it didn't solve the problem entirely.

Thus, we suggest an action on the following cards :

-The Dragon's Tail (Across the Seven Kingdoms #1)
-The Dornishman's wife (Guarding the Realm #39)
-The Bear and the Maiden Fair (Core Set #197)
-Six maids in a Pool (House of Thorns #23)
-Given to the Drowned God (The Faith Militant #92)
-To the Rose Banner! (Wolves of the North #38)
-A Rose of Gold (Lions of Casterly Rock #38)
-Pleasure Barge (Taking the Black #6)
-Secret Schemes (The Red Wedding #76)
-In Doran's Name (The Road to Winterfell #36)
-Elinor Tyrell (The Fall of Astapor #43)
-The Bounty of Highgarden (Kingsmoot #44)


To a lower Extent, we also believe something should be done with Littlefingers Meddling (Lions of Casterly Rock #49).

We suggest to update the restricted list with these cards or, if not, to add erratas to these cards in order to limit their interactions. Such an errata could be, for example, to add the keyword limited to some or all of these cards. The errata could also take the form of a generic cost, such as for instance, kneeling the faction card to trigger any of these effects.

2)
We also woul'd like to draw your atttention on some power generating enginea that seem dangerous if you want to avoid combo decks, and other kind of "solitaire's" deck :

-Mace Tyrell (House of Thorns #1)
-Driftwood Cudgel (Someone Always Tells #112)
-Doran's Game (Core Set #119)
-All Men are Fools (All Men Are Fools #4)

For the last two cards from this list, every card with "gains X power" is a "call for abuse" card. Some interactions with Doran's Game and Ricasso can already provide more than 15 powers by turn two.

For the rest of the aforementioned list, we've come along with a solution frequently asked since CCG era :

A new Core rule that would put a limit of 3 times per round or phase for every triggered effects of the games.
While avoiding a big part of the combos, this would also balance some cards in the game while making design and playtest even easier to avoid unexpected/underwhelming interractions.
We also would like you to consider the fact that in 1.0, almost every time an infinite loop happened to offer a combo deck (mostly self standing effects), it hs been errated pretty quickly with a limit of 3 times, either per phase or per round, added on the card.
This could have been prevented if there was a core rule that already stood to avoid that, thus helping new players to not feel spoiled when discovering erratas.
We strongly suggest to make it per round as it creates a safer environment.

3)
Another core rule that would prevent most of those combo to appears, would be a drawcap.
While the reserve brings some interesting interractions to the game and is a first way to avoid excessive draw, it seems not enough to prevent combos, even more knowing most of those are also based on recursion engine such as The Annals of Castleblack (Guarding the Realm #40).
From there, we think that a drawcap limit of 6 would be an interesting compromise beetween 1.0 drawcap and 2.0 reserve.
This would also add some interest to some cards that don't actually "draw" but rather "add to hand", such as Dorne (Sands of Dorne #17) or The Watch has Need (Taking the Black #2), while also opponening opening some building and design possibilities from that perspective.

We are aware that there is probably no good solution on wether cards should be restricted or errated, especially if we take into consideration the fact that some of these cards (but not all of them) will one day leave the metagame with the rotation. But still, these cards are, in our opinion, the core of those "combo" decks you aim to fight with your restricted list and as such, must be dealt with.

Please, note that we sahre this concern with you two weeks before the European championship, the first Continental Tier event of the year.
We hope that something could be done to get an healthier metagame, balancing the core mechanic of the game from the ressource perspective (restreain draw and economy for every players).

Thank you very much to for the time you gave to this message, we hope you'll be able to answer our worries about the game.
We also would like to acknowledge all the work and effort you put into this game, we really would like it to grow as much as possible and are writing this letter for this specific purpose, while also wanting to enjoy the only game that matters, as we used to do so for many years for a lot of us.

Best regards.

Je me suis permis une petite repasse, il reste probablement un truc ou deux, mais on devrait etre bonn pour la plupart des choses .

Nightmare et HJ permettent plus aux deck combos de contrer ce qui pourrait les contrôler que l'inverse, vu qu'eux voient tout leur deck, tandis que toi, t'en vois qu'un cinquième. Ca reste des cartes qui permettent la combo.

+1 Toom. Et Nightmares plus que HJ d'ailleurs. En tout cas avec le Tandaloot je jouais souvent 3 à 5 nightmares dans une partie, les HJ beaucoup plus rarement.

Deilan a écrit:

Bref, un méta sain quoi.
Regardez les perfs que Qt a fait avec le même genre de deck. A Paris ou Nancy, je ne pense pas que ça gagne un deck comme ça.

On en discute ou bien?


Bref en mode prière pour une faq...

Du coup on est bon sur notre texte ? Tous ok ? On balance publiquement sur FB ?

On envoie les mails à FFG ?

Est ce qu'on inviterai pas tout le forum à le faire comme on a déjà peu faire par le passé ?

Ah merde je pensais que ça avait déjà été fait vendredi dernier ? ?

Perso j'ai été off, à peu près tout le week end, gros gros festival que j'ai organisé (hs : c'était tellement magique comme week end : hs off), je crois pas que qui que ce soit d'autres s'en soit occupé, je lance ça de suite donc.

Argento tu te sens le partage sur tout le fofo par mp ?

On peut en discuter.
Effectivement 2 bitterbridge sont arrivés en top 4.

Je gagne contre Qt grâce à une brienne chargée à 8 pouvoir et grâce à un Mace qui prend 3 pouvoirs avant qu'il n'en prenne 4 avec le sien.
J'avais un poppy pour gérer le sien ainsi que king in the north. (que j'ai placé en chattant sur ses armes à la porte, mais ça c'est une autre histoire :p)
L'autre demie, je n'ai pas vu comment ça s'est passé, mais l'aggro et les ramsey ont fait le taf à priori.

Quand je joue sur le net actuellement, je ne croise pas de milk.
Et quand je vois des bannières du loup, je ne vois pas de last heart scout. Ni la nouvelle Arya qui te faisait tant flipper.
Au TM je n'ai pas vu la finale, mais Jester a gagné contre toi grâce à ses thons alors que tu ne vois pas Jon.
La partie d'avant tu me sors grâce aux tiens. Et de mémoire tu bats Qt en ronde.
Pas de Mace dans ces 3 games et pourtant des résultats différents. L'aléa de la pioche existe.

Et pour finir à Nancy, oui, il y a eu plusieurs decks de ce type là en top, mais il suffit de voir qu'il y avait 7 tyrell pour 27 joueurs.
Alors oui c'est fort, mais forcément ça perf quand 1/4 du field joue ça. La répartition des familles me semble plus problématique qu'autre chose. Je maintient le TM comme example.
Quand j'ai commencé au CF 2016, on avait 5 tyrells pour quoi, 25 lanni ?
On m'a dit que tu comptais aller au CE avec du tyrell. Forcément un bon joueur de plus qui vient avec la faction forte du moment, c'est une place de plus en top pour un tyrell et pas un nw du coup.